Filmmaker Joanna Arnow’s shorts and docs are funny, fearless looks at people at their most excruciatingly vulnerable — especially herself. In her debut feature THE FEELING THAT THE TIME FOR DOING SOMETHING HAS PASSED, she ratchets up the deadpan humor to tell the story of a woman navigating the alternately mundane and surreal worlds of work, family…and BDSM relationships.
Arnow sits down with host Rico Gagliano to talk about her characters’ crossed wires, why pouring soup is funny, and what happens when you cast your parents as themselves.
Every May, the population of sleepy Cannes, France triples — as film pros and cinephiles from around the globe convene for the two-week movie-thon called the Cannes Film Festival. For the fourth season of the MUBI Podcast, we sent host Rico Gagliano into the eye of this celluloid storm, accompanied by an intrepid camera crew, to grab interviews with a cross-section of filmmakers who made Cannes 2023 one of the most celebrated in years.
Guests include legendary director Wim Wenders, perennial Cannes favorites Kleber Mendonca Filho and Monia Chokri, and a slew of new filmmakers destined to be world cinema's next wave — from Belgian hip-hopper-turned-auteur Baloji to New York's wry boundary-smasher Joanna Arnow.
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MUBI is a global streaming service, production company and film distributor dedicated to elevating great cinema. MUBI makes, acquires, curates, and champions extraordinary films, connecting them to audiences all over the world. A place to discover ambitious new films and singular voices, from iconic directors to emerging auteurs. Each carefully chosen by MUBI’s curators.
Heads up, audio listeners, you're about to hear a videotaped conversation for the full experience you'll find the video version of this episode on Spotify or YouTube. I think you were in a world cinema class? Is the idea where you first decided that you're going to be a filmmaker? Well, I think that's when I decided to study film in school. Do you have like the film that you were like, "That's it."I need to be a filmmaker like this person or make movies like this." It's a little cheesy, but I guess the first movie that came to mind when you said that is <i>Man With a Movie Camera</i>.- Well.- You know, carrying the tripod around and you know, truth, and all that stuff, that's kind of exciting. That is actor, writer and director Joanna Arnow and her films are as dry, deadpan, funny and, yeah, truthful as she is. Like painfully truthful. Her shorts and documentaries in which he's often a main character explore life's most intensely awkward moments between roommates, coworkers, families. And at Cannes we talked about her debut feature, which deals with the joys, disappointments and hilarious mundanities of BDSM sex. I'm Rico Gagliano. This is the MUBI Podcast. Welcome to a special season of Conversations from the 2023 Cannes Film Festival. This is episode seven. Joanna Arnow on her movie <i>The Feeling That the Time for Doing Something Has Passed.</i> In my current film, it... one of the things I was hoping to explore was kind of how we're all different people. So I think someone can be, you know, potentially fall into a follower role in their friendships in some places and also be a leader in other places or, you know, we're all kind of a mix of crossed wires. And, you know, I think it's complicated. It's true. Your... So that's why I can't answer any interview questions at all, you know...- Because...- a way that's good. Well, let's talk about the movie first. I think for those who haven't seen the movie, they get an idea of the texture of this thing. It's like a series of scenes, each of them kind of a deadpan scene. Early on, especially a lot of them are about the mundanities of life. And there's this one scene, and I'm watching it in the middle of the night on a screener, and I was just laughing hysterically. And I'm like,"Why am I laughing hysterically at this?" And it's early on, your character comes in to her apartment. The entire scene as she comes in to her apartment, opens a package of, heat and serve Indian food that you get, you know, in those pouches. What happens is, because I timed it, it's a 30 seconds close up shot, no music of you emptying the entire, like, bowels of this package into a bowl. And I could not stop laughing. Why is that funny? I think it's funny because, you know, I feel like it reflects something that we all do. Or, I mean, maybe not that specific soup brand, but there's just these moments every day that we go through where we're like staring at something a little bit ridiculous. And it's just so part of our everyday life that we don't notice it. But then when you step back and look at it through a more distant lens, I think it becomes sort of funny. And yeah, just these rituals. Because it does take a long time to empty those damn packages, you're right. And also, like, I don't know, I feel like there's a certain amount of playing with expectation. Like, you know, it wouldn't be funny if it was only for a 15 second shot, but then it goes on longer and you expect that it's going to stop, and then it becomes funny again and then becomes less funny. And then I think it's comes in waves, or at least that's my hope.- Yeah, I think it...- I do regret some 10 seconds of it that I cut. It used to be longer.- Really?- Yeah. You, did somebody tell you to do that? Because, they were wrong. We were trying to make sure the run time of this film wasn't too long as a whole, so, you know. You weren't making <i>Ben-Hur</i>. But, by the way, and the button of that scene, I totally, that was what you were talking about. Like seeing something that you do in everyday life is that you take the empty package, which still has a little bit of a base left in it, even though you've squeezed it dry, and then you just kind of go... dink! And you just stand it up, and it was like yeah, I've done that a thousand times and I've never seen it in a film before. Tell me about even coming up with this scene. I think it was a plot point later in the film that was cut, and so it seemed like, oh, to make that later in the plot point make more sense, let's establish some lentil soup throughout the film.- Okay.- But then once we filmed that lentil soup shot, like, you know, I was I became excited about that scene in a whole new way. I did want to just have some scenes like showing Ann the protagonist in her apartment going through everyday life. I wanted it to feel like a film where we're really with a character. But when we filmed the close ups, I think we knew it was going to be one of our favorite scenes. Also, I laughed entirely through one of the close ups of the lentil soups. It was amazing sound and we had to loop like the small, like 15 seconds that I wasn't laughing. The sound man, Maxwell di Paolo was very disappointed it was like"None of that is usable" because it was just hysterical laughter. I actually wanted to ask you about this in general 'cause it is so deadpan. Was there a lot of laughter after, you know, a scene stopped rolling, or did you kind of try to maintain that deadpan, quiet throughout for whatever reason? I don't know.- Yeah, there was some laughter.- Okay. This movie is in large part about the character's sex life, but, and it's a BDSM relationship, which could be obviously like smoking hot, but it's portrayed in some, in many circumstances in like, the same kind of deadpan way. And I'm wondering why portray it? Because this is you've said that you've drawn on your own life. I'm assuming that, you've been in these in these kind of relationships. I know that you've said that you kind of want to portray these relationships in a way that's different than they're often stereotyped as, which you do, but you're also portraying them as being ridiculous on some level. I mean, I think I wouldn't say that I portray these relationships as being ridiculous... Not the relationships, but the moments within them. I mean, I would say that I'm... I'm interested in sexuality and relationships as topics and their comedy. I think that when you step back and look at them through a distance, kind of similar to the lentil soup, everything becomes funny. So I think the vulnerability of people trying new things and and just the gray areas in between, you know, casualness and intimacy is interesting to explore. And yeah, I think I'm definitely interested in the comedy of it, but I was looking to explore it in a non sensational and non-judgmental way. I feel like the long take, long shot style that you were talking about kind of is to show the whole absurdity of the situation in the same way that, you know, we stay with the lentil soup for so long. I do think that it's like an amazing thing to like think of shooting lentil soup and sexuality in exactly the same way. Um... You just brought up, you're interested in sex as a theme throughout your movies. I'd say I think everything that I've seen of yours at least dabbles in talking about it and often representing it. First of all, why? Why is it such a like, if I can use the term thematic palate, why does it loom so large? I feel like it's something funny, interesting, complicated and vulnerable and... yeah, I thin-I think something that others can relate to in some shape or form and... Yeah, I mean, I like drawing on my personal experience and making it specific and vulnerable, hoping that it can be something that will resonate with other people. You are so fearless about it though. And I use that term very specifically. I mean, like this movie opens the very first scene, you're completely naked. There's a lot of nudity in all of your films. And I want, like, but are you fearless, though? Do you consider yourself like a fearless person? That's what I would imagine from seeing your films. I mean, I like to make films and depict them in a way that are essential and right for the story. You know, using nudity and explicit scenes not to provoke or like, you know, get under people's skin, but just because I think they're absolutely correct for the type of story it is. And I don't really think about myself in terms of fearless or not fearless. Speaking of being fearless, though, so they say that you should not work with animals and you shouldn't work with, I think it's like water is the other thing, you know, as a director. But you, I think, touch the third rail, which is your parents. You like cast your parents as your parents. As versions of my parents.- But yes.- Well, that's my question. Like they're versions of, there's some truth to the depiction there. There's some relation to your actual parents in their depiction, right? Yeah. You know, it's a film that draws on personal experience. And I partially cast my parents to play versions of themselves and me to play a version of myself, to... because I was hoping it would be a more authentic story and the personal way it was written, you know, that casting, I think, amplifies that. So how aware were they that this was, that they were portraying like a version of themselves? Do they have a sense of humor about how they were being depicted? I feel like I don't want to speak for them, but they were willing to be in the project and that was very supportive and they've been supportive of the films in general. You said that it was challenging, though, that there were challenges. And I wonder what those were. They have a lot of opinions about how things should go and- express those.- Really? Like are they trying to direct those scenes a little? I was talking to my mother about an insert in the... a path to the bay scene, of some flowers, and the scene is about her pointing out plants to me. And she told me that she had a better idea for a different insert recently. And I had been too busy to listen to her. So... I don't know. She wants you to reedit the film? For this, like insert idea she has? We got the wrong flowers in the film. Joanna Arnow, that insert shot did not end up hurting her movie's prospects. It's currently got 100% positive reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. I am looking forward to watching it in an actual cinema and to seeing how they fit the film's title on a marquee. Meanwhile, this episode of the MUBI Podcast was written and hosted by me, Rico Gagliano. Ciara McEniff produced along with Elodie Fagan and Josefina Perez-Portillo. Amos Levin edited the show, and Michelle Cho is our supervising editor. Yuri Suzuki composed our theme music. Our camera crew in Cannes included Cédric Hazard, Alice Desplat, Rob Godfrey, Solal Coulon, and Mathis Toti. Special thanks to MUBI's additional team in Cannes, Eric Issenberg, Sam Leter, and Ilyass Malki. This series is executive produced by me, along with Jon Barrenechea, Efe Çakarel, Daniel Kasman and Michael Tacca. If you're a Spanish speaker our sister show, MUBI Podcast Encuentros, is also posting interviews taped at Cannes with Latin American filmmakers. Watch or listen wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, to stream the best in cinema, head over to MUBI.com to start watching. Next episode it's my conversation with Portuguese auteur Filipa Reis. Till then, go watch some movies.